Intangiblia™
#1 Podcast on Goodpods - Intellectual Property Indie Podcasts
#3 Podcast on Goodpods - Intellectual Property Podcast
Plain talk about Intellectual Property. Podcast of Intangible Law™
Intangiblia™
Marc Luanghy - Fortifying Brands, Decoding Risk: Innovation, IP, and the Path to Sustainable Growth
Ideas don’t turn into impact on excitement alone. They need structure, ownership, and trust. We sit down with Mark, an IP advisor and blockchain compliance expert, to unpack how intangible assets—patents, trademarks, copyrights, code, data, and even carbon credits—quietly drive growth while shaping risk across industries.
We dig into the hidden engine of value that most founders overlook: dormant IP. Mark walks us through practical IP audits that surface what you already own, from unique processes and datasets to brand equity you can license or franchise. He explains why mindset comes first, then market size and timing, and how that sequence determines whether you defend aggressively, collaborate through licensing, or wait for the right moment. On the Web3 front, we challenge the myth that crypto is lawless. Clear names, protected code, and compliant launches build the trust that filters copycats, supports valuation, and attracts serious capital.
Sustainability threads through the conversation as we explore carbon markets and climate finance. Carbon may be intangible, but the credits and systems around it require rigorous legal frameworks. Mark shares how IP strategy supports climate tech adoption —from discovery to cross-border licensing—scaling faster than opening new offices. We also dive into brand stewardship beyond the certificate: monitoring registries, enforcing quickly, and using licensing to expand with lower risk. Along the way, we look ahead to more innovative tools—AI assessing brand strength, interoperable IP revenue tracking, and policy incentives for climate-aligned inventions.
If you’re building at the edge of tech or climate, this is your playbook for turning the invisible into compounding advantage. Hear how to protect before you launch, design risk into your roadmap, and monetize the assets you already have. Subscribe, share with a founder who needs this, and leave a review with the one IP question you want answered next.
Check out "Protection for the Inventive Mind" – available now on Amazon in print and Kindle formats.
The views and opinions expressed (by the host and guest(s)) in this podcast are strictly their own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the entities with which they may be affiliated. This podcast should in no way be construed as promoting or criticizing any particular government policy, institutional position, private interest or commercial entity. Any content provided is for informational and educational purposes only.
To grasp the power of intangible assets, you need to have a level of vision. You need to be sensible to projection so that you can understand the mechanics and see how we can make it happen.
SPEAKER_05:Hello and welcome to Intangibilia. Today we welcome a legal strategist who speaks the language of both innovation and impact. Mark is an IP advisor, blockchain compliance expert, carbon project consultant, and founder of IP Stance. With over 15 years of international experience, he helps startups and entrepreneurs transform ideas into assets and risk into opportunity. From carbon markets to code-based economies, Mark brings a unique perspective on how to protect innovation without slowing it down. In this conversation, we dive into IP sustainability, Web3 compliance, and why the smartest ideas need the strongest foundations. So we're gonna talk about first uh yourself. Tell us about yourself and how you landed here in Geneva.
SPEAKER_03:Well, uh like um basically I'm um Geneva homegrown. Um I grew up in Geneva and uh did all my uh my life here, uh did all my scholar studies here and until university, and then I went to the UK to higher studies, spent a few years in uh in England, London, before coming back to Geneva, where I started my uh professional uh career.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. So you you uh traveled around a little bit, you grew up here, and then you went abroad to study to spread your wings. Yes. And then you came back home.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly.
SPEAKER_05:Perfect. So you work at the intersection of intellectual property, blockchain, and sustainability. What does three what does these three fields have in common that most people don't realize?
SPEAKER_03:I would say the three the three things cover risk. In every business, there are risk involved, every transaction has risk involved, and most of the time risk is not um well appreciated until a bad event occurs. That's when people realize oh we should have known better. But in fact, uh risk is an intangible, I would say, um topic. It's not something that uh is well um understood, and the conversions of subjects bring an intersection to this intangible asset topic because IP deals with risk and compliance is about mitigating the risk. And this is where these two topics merge. And when it comes to the climate and sustainability, we're also dealing with risk, and most of the time uh climate finance is related to the intangible asset finance because the carbon is intangible by essence, and the carbon finance, carbon credits are the financial instruments around it, but it's the monetization of this intangible asset that is the carbon. So this is where I bring the link between those three, and knowing also that there are the uh uh SDGs that have been put in place. Companies are taking these topics much more seriously now, and this is where they need to I would say make a substantial effort when it comes to their intangible capital and the monetization, monetization of it.
SPEAKER_05:So all of them deals with intangible items or assets or or or uh things as well. So there's it's always in the collective imaginary.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Um your firm, IP Stance, helps clients turn intangible capital into tangible growth. What's one way you help funders unlock hidden value?
SPEAKER_03:It's uh interesting question. Um, most of the time, the best way to go into it is to deep dive in the entrepreneurial business and look at the essence of what they've been achieving. And from there, we'll be able to assess through an IP audit. We'll be able to assess what are all these intangible assets that are sleeping in this uh business that uh the entrepreneur has not realized he can value and monetize. And most of the time, this is where the the real value of a company really lies. It's in these dormant assets. And uh the idea is to bring them to life and generate uh additional income stream for your business and use those assets to help, I would say, sustain the business strategy, the overall business strategy, so that you get an incremental advantage and can move faster.
SPEAKER_05:Because the value is already there, but they haven't recognized it.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, that's that's very interesting. So it's it's not uh because the push is always to be creative, innovative, to to to launch in, but it's good to do a uh uh a self-reflection or like uh it's good to like the audit. Yes. To realize, well, wait, maybe you don't need to create something because you already have.
SPEAKER_03:And do that introspection. It's a very well uh very interesting exercise because most of the time people don't realize how far they've come and how much they know, and how something that they take for granted can be useful to many.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So this is uh basically the the challenge is to uh help them realize and come to terms with this thing you don't value is actually extremely valuable and to make visible the invisible.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, yeah, yeah, that's great, that's remarkable. Um, so you have advised uh early stage ventures and multinationals. When it comes to protecting innovation, what changes the game? Size, timing, or mindset?
SPEAKER_03:I would say it all starts with mindset because um to grasp the the I would say the power of intangible assets, you you need to have a level of uh vision, you need to be sensible to projection so that you can understand the mechanics and see how we can make it happen. The the second aspect will be the size, because the the size of the company, the size of the market will determine how aggressive or defensive you will be with the exploitation of the assets. And obviously, the timing in relation to the market is also key because if you come too early, no matter how much marketing you're gonna do, uh it might not work. If it's too early, it's too early.
SPEAKER_05:It's not the moment for for it.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, I would I would say put them in that order of importance.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it makes sense. And and mindset also is the hardest part as well, because uh there's things that you cannot really put in people's minds. Exactly. And because they're not open to it or they're just not willing to take the the chance.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. If they don't uh acknowledge the challenge and they don't reckon that you have to go out of your comfort zone to discover and see, explore the opportunities, then it might not be the right fit and we can't pass the that level.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, makes sense. Um and you have worked with traditional IP um spaces and frontier technologies like tokenization and decentralized uh um fiance, DeFi. How would you um how do you adapt legal thinking to new tech?
SPEAKER_03:Well, there was also uh I would say similar to sustainability questions, this common factor of intangibility. And even when we talk about tech, there is there are a lot of uh creation going on. Uh developers create and write codes, and even though now AI has come into play, but the the essence is that the the codes are written, protected by copyrights, and until you start to market it and put it out there, the trademark dimension doesn't really kick in. But I would say by uh common practice, because people sometimes overlook IP laws, they started to launch many products in relation to blockchain and especially cryptocurrencies, and sometimes with similar names, and there's been a lot of I would say um not so good projects with uh confusingly similar names.
SPEAKER_05:Oh no, and so they tarnish the reputation of someone who's doing it right.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. And um IP, IP laws are actually the perfect instrument to kind of uh uh stop the bad behavior. Yeah, of course. And it is uh also a space where there is a lot of um uh sensibilization to to make, to realize that it's not because it's open that it's uh lawless. There are some laws that are already existent and very suitable for the subject. And the legislator adapted also in many jurisdictions to recognize some of these uh I would say instruments as securities also and regulations have come into play. So now compliance regulations also come in. So it's a very I would say cross-border topic.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And um it has, I would say, many years to go ahead.
SPEAKER_05:So you can you can have uh harmonization between them because the new tech, of course, it is going to be there, it's just only gonna get bigger and bigger, but that doesn't mean that IP is gonna have less of a role. Actually, it's the contrary.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly.
SPEAKER_05:It's gonna help to build trust with the public, make sure as well that everyone is identified as they should, and if they're not, then you follow the legal process.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, that's that's the best way to put it. And uh it's a matter of how to say uh spreading the knowledge for people to realize even if uh a team launches a cryptocurrency tomorrow, knowing that they can protect themselves from a copycat is something that they would be happy to know. Yeah, of course. So it's uh just a matter of uh uh responding to the the prospect's need to bring him a solution that is actually effective for his problem.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, perfect. And what role IP strategy play in supporting sustainable innovation, specifically in uh climate-conscious ventures?
SPEAKER_03:Okay, it can help in many ways. I would say that the first aspect is uh regarding funding. When it comes to uh financing now, there is a great uh interest in green bonds and green finance in general. And you'd say that uh an RD department working on a new solution would be uh smartly advised to look into, I would say, uh climate-friendly aspect of their innovation because it would be simpler to attract investors if they're raising funds. And also when it comes to the market prospect of the innovation, uh it having a green dimension opens doors to many more markets and opportunities. So it is definitely uh, I would say a new layer to adapt in their uh thinking process as they develop their innovations, because it is basically here to stay, and the the climate issues are not going to disappear.
SPEAKER_05:So probably they're gonna get bigger.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly.
SPEAKER_05:So if um you're one of the few IP professionals who also speaks language of blockchain compliance, which is something sometimes uh lawyers were a bit uh technology adverse. What's one major misconception founders have when launching Web3 products?
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Uh most of the time, oh, um it's open, it's open source, it's free world, it's there is no law, it's lawless. No man's land. Exactly. You do what you want. So, yes, that's the first thing to actually uh put in context that no, there are many laws that apply to it. It's not because you disregard it that they don't exist.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly.
SPEAKER_03:So first they're there, they exist, and then uh let's see how this applies to you. Um another aspect, like I mentioned earlier, is the IP law relevance when it comes to launching a service or a product on the blockchain. Uh don't ignore IP because that's your best protection from copycats. Um another issue would be um thinking that, oh, but why should I care about it because so many projects have been successful without it? Well, rethink because when it comes to valuation, you having uh IP in your innovation will definitely have a strong influence on a higher valuation for your service or technology versus no IP. So it's a great barrier to entry and uh accelerator to valuation and business growth.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. And also comparison is never a good exercise because you don't know exactly how the company is managed, how they man amounted to that success, or if they're dealing with any issues that they're not of public knowledge as well.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Negotiations per se, most of the time you don't know the details and what was really said and discussed.
SPEAKER_05:So you cannot assume that everyone is having a great time and you're just the only one struggling. So um you have worked with um carbon project development. How are IP licensing and valuation shaping the future for the green economy?
SPEAKER_03:It's um contributing with um initiatives such as the WIPO Green, for example, to a great platform for um tech innovators to showcase their innovation and for people in need of implementing some forward-thinking products and solutions to find actually a place dedicated for the the cause. And uh also when it comes to uh again raising funds with climate finance, it is definitely of uh great importance and I would say um agility to choose solutions that have this green dimension because it really has um great impact on the mid and long term of the project. So yes.
SPEAKER_05:Choose wisely beforehand.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_05:Um you talk uh about fortifying brands. What makes a brand legally strong beyond the trademark certificate that we all know?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, the trademark certificate is the first step. And a lot of trademark owners stop there when in fact it's the beginning of the journey because straight from being issued this certificate, the good idea is to monitor the registries and see if uh anyone is trying to copy or inspire strongly from you. If they're creatively illegally, you know because uh letting a copycat slide, the longer you wait to react, the harder it's going to be for you.
SPEAKER_02:Of course.
SPEAKER_03:So that this is the first thing. And also uh when it comes to owning a trademark, the good the next good idea is to exploit that trademark and trying to license or build a business to franchise it because you never know. It might cost less to expand through a franchise versus developing yourself um cross-border business. So it's uh it has some benefits, especially when it comes to tech. If you have a solution, online solution, you you might want to just expand and license to another territory to exploitation of your solution, and it might be easier for you to go that way versus trying to open an office and recruit the and put all the money or or find the money to put it.
SPEAKER_05:Exactly. So you can do it because partnership licensing is is is a great way to expand with minimizing the risk as well.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly.
SPEAKER_05:And it's a way of of uh um monetizing your your brand. But you have to have a strong brand first. So there is of course checked, but monitor, make sure that is no one is stepping out of their notice that somebody is uh in infringing on your rights, you've got to take action. Of course. So because when you don't take action in many jurisdictions, you're you're penalized by it.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, and you are devaluating your own brand by not taking action. That means that this certificate is worthless. So you don't care exactly. So what message are you sending out? So you you have to uh enforce your rights.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, of course, you have to you have to be your first defender. Um if you could reimagine how risk is handled in startups, what would you change?
SPEAKER_03:Taking risk consideration at a very early stage. Most of the time, too often we hear, oh, we'll think about that later. And this is actually uh killer sentence because this thinking about it later, you might never get to that later because you didn't consider it.
SPEAKER_05:Because it's never the right time.
SPEAKER_03:You see, and the that that right time uh is not gonna come and land on you, you have to create that opportunity. And by having uh the strongest case is the best way to convince any partner, investor, or any party to contribute for your project go forward. So weaknesses are not recommended. It's better to come prepared and inspire trust and confidence for people to follow.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, because if you're asking people to trust in you, you have to be trustworthy. Exactly. Yeah, makes sense. And now we go to the more informed part of the of the episode. I'll ask you to pick one.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:So you can make you can explain yourself if you want, but you don't have to. Okay, are you ready?
SPEAKER_01:Ready.
SPEAKER_05:Carbon neutral trademarks or sustainability linked IP clauses.
SPEAKER_03:Carbon neutral trademarks.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, glower crypto regulation or tailor frameworks per region. Tailored frameworks per region, tokenization for funding or tokenization for community engagement.
SPEAKER_03:Tokenization for funding.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, legal foresight or legal fire drills. Legal foresight, smart contracts or smarter negotiations, smarter negotiations, defensive IP or um collaborative licensing.
SPEAKER_03:Collaborative licensing.
SPEAKER_05:We create more together, ESG backed, um baked into business models or reported at the end.
SPEAKER_03:Reported at the end.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. A world where every pitch deck includes an IP plan or where due diligence does the heavy lifting.
SPEAKER_03:Due diligence does the heavy lifting.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:And finally, launch first and protect later, or IP first, even in beta.
SPEAKER_03:IP first, even in beta.
SPEAKER_05:Protect before you launch. And now you can take the here, the palette. Um, and you have to choose true or futurist. Okay. So um the statement I'm gonna give you um is you you regard it as either true, so something that is happening right now is about to happen, or uh futurist that is sci-fi when the future is never gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_05:IP risk scores will become a key metric for venture funding. Climate innovation patents will come with fast track incentive tied to the ESD goals. AI tools will assess brand strength based on trademark activity and sentiment data. Every startup accelerator will include IP audits in their program. Entrepreneurs will generate legal documents with blockchain verified ownership metadata. Open source hardware will drive more patent filings than software in the next years. True. That's nice, it's a beautiful thought. Smart IP wallets will auto-track licensing revenue across jurisdictions. Interesting. Governments will offer IP tax credits to climate aligned inventions. True. Okay, so now to wrap up the episode. If the next wave of innovation is built on trust, what's one principle you believe should guide how we design, govern, and protect our most transformative ideas?
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:Don't worry, take your time. It's a big question.
SPEAKER_03:How to take one on this? Um we have to to come out of the comfort zone at times. Uh I would say that I'm quite comfortable with the tools we have at the at the moment. Um I don't know if there is uh maybe some harmonization with uh IP financing issues because it uh requires I would say uh better uh implementation. Too few countries that have proper uh framework on these questions and that that probably hinders on the capacity of some countries to adopt the IP mindset and uh respect for IP. Uh because it comes along with uh I would say financial incentives as well. So without this, it's uh it's hard to get some parties on board. Uh yeah, it's um it's a hard question.
SPEAKER_05:So um what do you think is the secret ingredients in order for people to keep trusting uh the system, to keep try to build trust with AI, blockchain, all this Web3 uh tech? Everything that is uh new is always scary, especially when you don't understand it fully. So, what would you think it will be the secret ingredient? So it will be full transparency in the process that is being made, or transparency in certain areas that people will be more inclined to, or just uh they should just blindly trust uh whatever is handed to them.
SPEAKER_03:It's hard to blindly trust, yeah. Uh as is uh history showed before.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, of course. History has taught us to be careful.
SPEAKER_03:But uh you you don't want to there's a thin line between putting too much burden on creators and then creations unhappen.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And um there needs to be a free space so that there can be the creativity, the the whole experience can happen, and this is when uh novelty comes comes into play. Um but at the same time uh we need some safeguards to to to tell us uh basically the the the risk with each uh uh solution and uh new innovation that we are adopting. Um probably some reviews on new innovation tools and so on. Maybe this is some uh angle to to look at. But it's really hard to to have uh I would say uh marked uh opinion on this. Yeah. It's uh it's very tricky.
SPEAKER_05:It's it's uh uh it's a tricky, tricky territory. Well, thank you so much, Mark, and uh thank you for coming and talking uh about uh the IP that is uh both of our passion and also beyond that is that all this new technology that is a wave uh crashing everything that we know, especially the work that we do and how we how we come about it. And for sure, AI has been the biggest one in this last uh two, three years. It became from something that people talk about into we have to we have access to it every day now. Or we are more conscious that we have access to it every day. Yes. Uh so it's it's it's going to be an interesting future, and I hope we're gonna be on the right side of the future. Um and thank you for reminding us that innovation is not just about speed or hype, it's about durability, structure, and intention. In a world of fast pivots of an old ideas, your work shows that the strongest foundations are often invisible, but they shape everything, from IP to impact, it's not just what we build, but how well we're protected. Because innovation without structure is just luck. And we are here to build with purpose.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, indeed.
SPEAKER_05:Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you, Letizia.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for listening to Intangibia, the podcast of Intangible Law. Plane talk about intellectual property. Did you like what we talked to? Today, please share with your network. Do you want to learn more about intellectual property? Subscribe now on your favorite podcast player. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter. Visit our website www.intangiblia.com. Copyright Leticia Caminero 2020. All rights reserved. This podcast is provided for information purposes only.
